<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1307</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/4/99 12:19:02 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, November 4 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1307<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: [OT] Cultural Differences...<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural  Differences)<BR>
Re:  Traveller-digest V1999 #1306<BR>
Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
diplomacy<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
Re: Ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
Re: Diplomacy<BR>
Re: Ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
GT vehicle list<BR>
Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Reprints?<BR>
Re: Reprints?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:07:32 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
Peter Trevor wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
I disagree with the link between high LL and corruption.  Some of<BR>
the sheriffs in the American Wild West were corrupt and that  was<BR>
a low LL situation.  I  don't  think  there  is  any  correlation<BR>
between LL and corruption.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
In the Traveller Law Level abstraction, a Low LL planet should have few<BR>
things the police get involved or interested in, and therefore the police<BR>
will not be involved unless it's serious (and probably very public)<BR>
wrongdoing. If you're walking down main street, blazing away at <BR>
innocents with your trusty laser rifle, the corrupt or non-corrupt nature<BR>
of the local peace officers isn't as relevant, or will at least be very<BR>
difficult to conceal.<BR>
<BR>
Compare this to a very high LL world where very minor and very private <BR>
things can be criminalized. Once the offense is private and difficult to<BR>
detect, the very existance of the crime can be a judgement call on the <BR>
officer's part. Then we *do* get into situations where corruption is very <BR>
relevant. <BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:19:48 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/3/99 5:44:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
robert_prior@sympatico.ca writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Some of my Jewish friends concur with this. Another who's a microbiologist<BR>
 notes that "ritually clean" doesn't mean "safe" - Kosher beef can have<BR>
 growth hormones, bacteria, and the like that won't be caught by the rabbi.<BR>
 <BR>
 I tend to agree with the microbiologist.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Quite true, though in Kashrut cleanliness counts which should take care of <BR>
dirt born germs and external contamination. This probably accounts for Jews <BR>
getting lynched during the black death. They were cleaner and thus didn't get <BR>
sick as often. Therefore the church thought they were poisoning the wells....<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: Have the PC's get involved with a persecuted minority (on either <BR>
side) on a balkanized world. Another nugget is for the PC's to get involved <BR>
in transporting exotic foodstuffs that need special handling, preferably if <BR>
said handling is a real pain in the a-- for them...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:24:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
Kristian Miller writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, the National Guard and Reserves didn't come into existence<BR>
> until over 100 years after the Constitution and Bill of Rights were<BR>
> written.  The Bill of Rights was tacked onto the Constitution years<BR>
> after the states rights were set out in the Constitution in order to<BR>
> preserve certain individual rights and limit the power of the federal<BR>
> government.<BR>
<BR>
Whu... um, the Bill of Rights was passed concurrently with the Constitution. The fact that the national guard didn't come into existence until much later is irrelevant to the point that they are a militia, though it's certainly legitimate to claim that it wasn't specifically what the founders were thinking about.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:43:52 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
<BR>
> From: Brandon Cope <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 1999 9:35 AM<BR>
> <BR>
> Similar to the society in Judge Dredd, where they are _extremelely_<BR>
> suspcicious of citizens who haven't been convicted of something, because,<BR>
> well, they must be damn good criminals to have avoided prosecution for so<BR>
> long.<BR>
<BR>
This in turn reminds me of Niven's Belter society as presented in e.g.<BR>
_Protector_, where Belt prospectors were more or less expected to attempt<BR>
to smuggle cargoes past tax collectors when the opportunity arose.  If<BR>
you'd never been nabbed and fined for this, there would be a general<BR>
suspicion you'd never tried, and were thus a coward; if you'd been caught<BR>
more than once or twice, you would be considered incompetent.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net<BR>
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html<BR>
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them<BR>
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 09:39:35<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural  Differences)<BR>
<BR>
At 11:57 PM 11/3/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, the _real_ problem, for Muslims in the 3I (especially prior<BR>
>to the Solomani Rim War), is the requirement for pilgrimage to Mecca<BR>
>(Al-Haj).  Even after Terra falls to Imperial forces, travel to Mecca,<BR>
>and the return trip home, could take half a lifetime or more for Muslims<BR>
>in the Spinward Marches.  It wouldn't surprise me if Islamic scholars<BR>
>established shrines throughout human space that would suffice to fulfill<BR>
>the pilgrimage requirement, without having to travel for a decade or<BR>
>more each way on one's pilgrimage.<BR>
<BR>
In 2300AD, a Saudi colony had a chip of the stone in Mecca (name has gone<BR>
right out of my head) brought to be the center piece of a new mosque.  All<BR>
Muslims on that world treated this site as if it were M<ecca for all<BR>
religious purposes.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"<BR>
- - Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:49:17 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re:  Traveller-digest V1999 #1306<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/4/99 9:06:21 AM, was written:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> What does "knock up" mean in Britain?<BR>
><BR>
>Check out "What a load of codswallop, pet! "<BR>
>http://www.wmin.ac.uk/~sfgva/ukus.htm<BR>
><BR>
>"19) 'Knock you up'. In our country, to wake someone up in the morning so<BR>
>they won't be late. Slightly different meaning for our American Cousins...<BR>
>(A big hint for Brits - preggers)."<BR>
<BR>
 Another good site would be the various "slang" entries in the Hitchhiker's<BR>
Guide to the Galaxy.<BR>
http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
"If it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'."<BR>
                              -Red Green<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:56:53 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
<BR>
Greetings all.<BR>
<BR>
I was asked about some X-boat routes missing from my map of the<BR>
Spinward Marches on my Trade Routes page.<BR>
<BR>
<Shamless Plug><BR>
<BR>
http://www.ghg.net/tmixon/Trade<BR>
<BR>
</Shamless Plug><BR>
<BR>
When I looked at Galactic, since I am out of country and don't have my<BR>
CT Spinward Marches at hand, I noted a few differences. Will someone<BR>
with the CT: Spinward Marches book let me know if they are there as<BR>
well? Any comments as to how these SHOULD be are herein asked for.<BR>
I posted these to GURPS: Eratta page so I MIGHT get an answer there as<BR>
well. <BR>
<BR>
There is one added X-boat line in BTC between Ffudn and Bendor in the<BR>
Glisten subsector. <BR>
<BR>
There are some X-boat routes not in BTC that are in Galactic. <BR>
Inthe-Regina to Dhian-Aramis to Risek-Rhylanor. Also, Strouden-Lunion<BR>
to Persephone-Lunion to Marastan-Glisten.<BR>
<BR>
It has several Zone differences that I will now list.<BR>
<BR>
494-908-Darrian            G: Red      BTC: Nothing<BR>
Karin-Five Sisters         G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Puparkin-Jewell            G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Chwistyoch-Jewell          G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Esalin-Jewell              G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Garda-Villis/Tanoose-Vilis G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Anduril-Sword Worlds       G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Singer-District 268        G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Kwai Ching-Distict 268     G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Feri-Regina                G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
<BR>
The following one had the name Dentus in BTC and Tentus in Galactic. I<BR>
am not sure which is correct.<BR>
<BR>
Dentus-Regina              G: Nothing  BTC: Red<BR>
Dinom-Lanth                G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Tureded-Lanth              G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Wardn-Lunion               G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Tsarina-Glisten            G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Corfu-Aramis               G: Red      BTC: Amber<BR>
Aramanx-Aramis             G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Junidy-Aramis              G: Nothing  BTC: Amber<BR>
Nakoto-Aramis              G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Zivije-Rhylanor            G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Moran-Mora                 G: Amber    BTC: Nothing<BR>
Zephyr-Trins Veil          G: Red      BTC: Nothing<BR>
<BR>
I am not sure that these are errata or concious changes they made or a<BR>
combination. Could someone toss out some opinions?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Terry Mixon<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:08:38 -0600<BR>
From: "Jim Mccall" <jpmccall@windsong.net><BR>
Subject: diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
I found this on http://devel.igo.org/DipPouch/Online/FAQ/rgd_faq.html#rules<BR>
the diplomacy faq:<BR>
<BR>
The rules for Diplomacy can NOT be found online. Avalon Hill, who holds the<BR>
copyright on the rules, has absolutely forbidden this. Because Avalon Hill<BR>
has given a large number of concessions to the Diplomacy community online,<BR>
the consensus is to respect their wishes. DO NOT post a copy of the rules<BR>
online anywhere. Doing so may jeopardize the Internet Diplomacy community.<BR>
<BR>
When Avalon Hill were making Diplomacy, it was possible to buy the rules<BR>
separately from the game. However, with Hasbro taking over AH, this is not<BR>
currently possible, and it is not clear if it will be available in the<BR>
future.<BR>
<BR>
****<BR>
<BR>
It's probably not a good idea to say you're sending out copies of<BR>
copyrighted material on a mailing list<BR>
frequented (or at least seen on occasion by game developers).<BR>
By the way do you have a free copy of a program for designing GURPs vehicles<BR>
?<BR>
<BR>
Jim Mccall<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:06:05 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >At 0:10 -0500 4/11/99,  "Keven R. Pittsinger"<BR>
> ><jamstar@accesstoledo.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > and B-52s ended the Vietnam war.. The more research I do, the less<BR>
> > > impressed I am with the Air Farces of the world.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The problem with B52s during the war was, they carried old weapons,<BR>
> >not the new improved 'smart' weapons they keep touting these days.<BR>
> >At cruising altitude, you couldn't hit the ground hardly with those<BR>
> >old WW2 era bombs.<BR>
> <BR>
> Which defy gravity? :-)<BR>
<BR>
Hey, if we concentrate research into this phenomenon, we might be able<BR>
to come up with contragrav in the very near future (TL 8 or 9, as per<BR>
CT). ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:06:26 +0100 (MET)<BR>
From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no><BR>
Subject: Re: Ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
<BR>
Just to throw something in from the real world.<BR>
<BR>
In Russia there is a rather lenghty trial going on were <BR>
a former Russian Navy Captain named Nikitin, collabarated<BR>
with a norwegian environmentgroup named Bellona on a<BR>
report on the Russian Militaries handling of radioactive<BR>
and toxic chemicals. None of the material published were<BR>
classified, but he iwas brought up on charges of breaking<BR>
some secret laws, has never seen the files of his case and <BR>
so on. A search on the web on Nikitin and Bellona will<BR>
probably give some pretty in depth views on how the<BR>
Russians has handled this case.<BR>
<BR>
Tommy Grav<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
tommy.grav@astro.uio.no     http://www.uio.no/~tommygr/  <BR>
Institute of Astrophysics, UiO, No  <BR>
IMTU tn++t4+tg+ ru+ge++ !3i jt+au+st+ls hi++dr-so++zh-sy-sw++ <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:14:00 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
<BR>
Terry Mixon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> There are some X-boat routes not in BTC that are in Galactic. <BR>
> Inthe-Regina to Dhian-Aramis to Risek-Rhylanor. Also, Strouden-Lunion<BR>
> to Persephone-Lunion to Marastan-Glisten.<BR>
<BR>
> It has several Zone differences that I will now list.<BR>
SNIP<BR>
<BR>
> I am not sure that these are errata or concious changes they made or a<BR>
> combination. Could someone toss out some opinions?<BR>
<BR>
It seems to be a fact that BTC changed several things from CT.   <BR>
X-boat routes have indeed disappeared from the Spinward Marches, at <BR>
least comparing to the MT map. But that's not the only change. I <BR>
think that almost two dozens of naval bases went missing. The <BR>
population of  (0301) sky-rocketed all of a sudden to become a High <BR>
Pop world, and at least 5 other worlds lost their High pop rating. <BR>
And also starports have changed: I got two examples, one from E to X <BR>
(0607), another from D to B (2735). Ant one imperial world is not <BR>
imperial anymore (1727).<BR>
<BR>
I think that there has been a thorough, deliberate reworking of the <BR>
sector. But of course we should ask MJ Dougherty or Neil Frier.<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/8772<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:27:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
Want a good laugh?<BR>
<BR>
Go here :<BR>
<BR>
http://www.wackyware.com/content/movies/trip.avi<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:20:44 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
<BR>
- --- Carlos Alos-Ferrer <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I am not sure that these are errata or concious changes they made<BR>
> > or a combination. Could someone toss out some opinions?<BR>
> <BR>
> It seems to be a fact that BTC changed several things from CT.   <BR>
> X-boat routes have indeed disappeared from the Spinward Marches, at <BR>
> least comparing to the MT map. But that's not the only change. I <BR>
> think that almost two dozens of naval bases went missing. The <BR>
> population of  (0301) sky-rocketed all of a sudden to become a High <BR>
> Pop world, and at least 5 other worlds lost their High pop rating. <BR>
> And also starports have changed: I got two examples, one from E to X <BR>
> (0607), another from D to B (2735). Ant one imperial world is not <BR>
> imperial anymore (1727).<BR>
> <BR>
> I think that there has been a thorough, deliberate reworking of the <BR>
> sector. But of course we should ask MJ Dougherty or Neil Frier.<BR>
<BR>
Hopefully, they will toss in their two centi-credits worth.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the input Carlos.<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:22:27 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 04:48:51 EST<BR>
> From: RASFranzen@aol.com<BR>
> <BR>
> cberry@cinenet.net:<BR>
> <BR>
> << The major problem with strategic airpower has been its misapplication,<BR>
>  particularly since WWII.  In that war, massive, well-coordinated raids on<BR>
>  German production and transportation centers significantly damaged<BR>
>  Germany's ability to field an effective army.  In the absence of the<BR>
>  multiyear bombing campaing, it's quite probable the invasion of France in<BR>
>  '44 would have been repelled.<BR>
> >><BR>
> <BR>
> I hope, that you realize, that Germanys highest armarment output was in<BR>
> 1944.  So much for strategic bombing. <BR>
<BR>
This rather misleading statistic often appears when this subject is<BR>
discussed.  Yes, production in tons of steel peaked in 1944.  That's why I<BR>
phrased my statement the way I did.  There's more to "field[ing] an<BR>
effective army" than producing a lot of tanks, arms, and ammo.  For<BR>
example, you have to fuel the vehicles, and lubricate them, and move the<BR>
troops to the front(s), and supply them there, and so on and on.  It was<BR>
this infrastructure that strategic bombing most heavily damaged, resulting<BR>
in a situation in which the Germans had a great deal of materiel which<BR>
they could no longer effectively deploy in the field.  Petroleum shortages<BR>
proved especially devastating, and these stemmed in large part from<BR>
wholesale destruction of fuel storage and transport facilities.<BR>
<BR>
> Since Douhet the airforces have claimed to be able to win wars. Evidence<BR>
> gathered on the ground has always shown this claim to be exaggerated. <BR>
<BR>
My industry (software) suffers from the 'silver bullet' theory as much as<BR>
the military does.  Every new technology is hyped to the skies, and is<BR>
predicted to solve all problems and revolutionize the field.  Then the<BR>
hype dies down, and people gradually discover how this new tool works with<BR>
others already in the box.<BR>
<BR>
Air forces don't (usually) win wars, but were I a ground soldier, I'd much<BR>
prefer to wade into a hostile country whose ability to wage war has been<BR>
degraded through a prolonged bombing campaign.  If the enemy is mounting a<BR>
counterattack, it's more effective and cheaper in lives lost to destroy<BR>
the rail stock and line they will use to reach the front, rather than<BR>
shooting the enemy soldiers individually once they get there.  And so<BR>
forth.<BR>
<BR>
> Even now in Serbia/Kosovo most of the military material claimed to be <BR>
> destroyed by air raids was just maskirovka stuff.<BR>
<BR>
And yet, however ineffectually airpower was applied, and however timid<BR>
allied forces were about ground deployments, an air campaign did result<BR>
(eventually) in partial capitulation by the Serbs.<BR>
<BR>
Desert Storm provides a somewhat better model for how air and ground<BR>
forces complement one another.  The prolonged air campaign left the allies<BR>
with total air superiority, and also (and this is critical) seriously<BR>
damaged the Iraqi C3I and supply infrastructure.  This weakened the Iraqi<BR>
military to the point that when the ground attack came, victory was swift<BR>
and relatively bloodless (compared to most predictions).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net<BR>
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html<BR>
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them<BR>
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:41:11 -0600 <BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
> Use steampipe or something similar for the barrel, and just make a <BR>
> simple zip gun, assuming use have ammo (how's that for an unlikely <BR>
> 'accident' the crash destroys all the guns, but leaves the <BR>
> ammo intact?)<BR>
> <BR>
> If there's no ammo, they had better have someone with chemistry or a <BR>
> decent knowledge of primitive weapons, military or technological <BR>
> history along, otherwise they're going to have a real problem making <BR>
> ammo.<BR>
<BR>
Check out Greg Porters _More Guns_ for a look at the Ingramus Mark X, a<BR>
Roman Empire designed and produced SMG.<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
- ---------------------------- Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina.<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:43:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
<BR>
>Leonard, it's not the fact that you responded, it's how you respond that I<BR>
>take exception too. You always speak down to people like you are the only<BR>
>one with intelligence on this list. It gets old. I've met plenty of people<BR>
>like you who have tons of book intelligence but can't walk through a<BR>
doorway<BR>
>and chew gum at the same time. They ricochet off the doorframe because they<BR>
>are so locked in to what they are doing.<BR>
<BR>
From my own perception, I have never felt Leonard has 'talked down' to me<BR>
when he disagreed with what I posted (which is quite often..:) ).  This<BR>
entire list is somewhat intimidating at first for a person like me who is<BR>
largely un-educated.  There's a lot of high-powered mental resources here<BR>
that I thoroughly enjoy.  Leonards' posts (the ones with scientific data or<BR>
formulas) generally tend to get saved to CD along with any other useful<BR>
tidbits I see here.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, this is just my thoughts on the matter.  I do not perceive any<BR>
attitudes on his part.  You also need to remember that since this is a<BR>
text-based medium, that often our own frame of mind can lend 'color' to<BR>
others' words where such semantic content just doesn't exist.<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:44:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
>You missed my point entirely...... What I was talking about is the people<BR>
>that want to receive it. They don't care about semantics, all they want to<BR>
>know is can they receive it and use it without paying anything.  The answer<BR>
>is YES.... After that it's a moot point and silly to be arguing about.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
But is the game worth downloading?  I don't know anything about it.<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 13:27:25 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
<BR>
At 07:06 PM 11/4/99 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>In Russia there is a rather lenghty trial going on were<BR>
>a former Russian Navy Captain named Nikitin, collabarated<BR>
>with a norwegian environmentgroup named Bellona on a<BR>
>report on the Russian Militaries handling of radioactive<BR>
>and toxic chemicals. None of the material published were<BR>
>classified, but he iwas brought up on charges of breaking<BR>
>some secret laws, has never seen the files of his case and<BR>
>so on. A search on the web on Nikitin and Bellona will<BR>
>probably give some pretty in depth views on how the<BR>
>Russians has handled this case.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of Russian law, check out:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.hacking.inter.com.ru/<BR>
<BR>
Scary, huh....<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
	     Gearhead-in-Training<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Gerfalcon Enterprises - GURPS Traveller Ironmongery for the 5th Millenium<BR>
IMTU tc  t4+ tg++ tt? ru ge++ 3i+ c+ jt au@ st+ ls+ pi-(+)<BR>
	ta- he+ kk-- hi+ as++ va++ dr+ so+ zh++ vi+ 0601<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes,  http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
Traveller WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:59:47 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: GT vehicle list<BR>
<BR>
Here is a more or less complete list (except for a couple of Zhodani bots in <BR>
AR1) of vehicles from various GURPS Traveller books. I'll probably do a list <BR>
of starships sometime next week.<BR>
<BR>
<none> = GURPS Traveller<BR>
SM = GURPS Traveller: Star Mercs<BR>
FT = GURPS Traveller: Far Trader<BR>
FI = GURPS Traveller: First In<BR>
ARI = GURPS Traveller: Alien Races 1<BR>
ARII = GURPS Traveller: Alien Races 2<BR>
<BR>
In some cases, a TL wasn't clearly indicated, so put down a best guess.<BR>
<BR>
Vehicle Name             TL        Page<BR>
- --------------------------------------------<BR>
APC, k'kree              8         ARII116<BR>
ATV, tracked             7         147<BR>
ATV, wheeled             8         148<BR>
Air/Space defense        10        SM77<BR>
Air/raft, enclosed, Asl. 9         ARII51<BR>
Air/raft, open topped    12        147<BR>
All-weather roamer,K'kr. 9?        ARII115<BR>
Battledress, commando    12        SM61<BR>
Battledress, scout       12        FI32<BR>
Container Rack           8         FT77<BR>
Decoy Capsule            12        SM62<BR>
Drop capsule             12        SM62<BR>
Exoskeleton, 5-ston      8         FT77<BR>
Fighter, drone, k'kree   11?       ARII118<BR>
Flight pack              12        SM62<BR>
Forklift, 5-ston         8         FT77<BR>
G-Carrier (armed), Var.  10        ARI95<BR>
G-Carrier, Asl.          9         ARII52<BR>
Grav APC                 10        SM76<BR>
Grav APC, Astrin class   12        SM75<BR>
Grav APC, Zho.           10        ARI61  command, gun and PD variants<BR>
Grav Lifter, 48-ston     8         FT78<BR>
Grav Tank, Heavy         10        SM79<BR>
Grav Tank, Light         10        SM77<BR>
Grav Tank, Medium        10        SM78<BR>
Grav Tank,Intrepid class 12        SM75<BR>
Grav sled, utility       9         SM74<BR>
Grav sled, utility, Zho. 10        ARI59<BR>
Ground car               6         148<BR>
Life Pod, Sheol          11        ARI131<BR>
Meson sled, Imperial     12        SM74<BR>
Mobile Exploration Base  12        FI33<BR>
Pelagic Survey Vessel    12        FI34<BR>
Probe, long-range        12        FI33<BR>
Robot platform, K'kree   6         ARII114<BR>
Rover, biosurvey         12        FI29      robot<BR>
Rover, geosurvey         12        FI30      robot<BR>
Rover, pelagic           12        FI30      robot<BR>
Scout Grav Sled, Zho.    10        ARI60<BR>
Speeder, Var.            10        ARI94<BR>
Stealth surveil. drone   12        FI31      robot<BR>
Tank, k'kree             11?       ARII117<BR>
Workpod, 5-ston          8         FT78<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 11:22:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
At 01:27 PM 11/4/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Want a good laugh?<BR>
><BR>
>Go here :<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.wackyware.com/content/movies/trip.avi<BR>
<BR>
Just so y'all know.. that's a 20 *meg* avi.<BR>
<BR>
Request for all:  When posting url, please keep a line open above and below<BR>
so Eudora doesn't grab extraneous material.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 11:58:14 PST<BR>
From: "will richards" <willrichards@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Reprints?<BR>
<BR>
Areorders being Accepted for the CT reprints now?<BR>
If so has any one ordered them and from where?<BR>
and when do you expect them to come in?<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
   Will<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:14:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Reprints?<BR>
<BR>
Marc said that he is expecting the reprints to hit stores just after the<BR>
first of the year.  He is preparing a new web site for Traveller on which he<BR>
has a link to the Collector Edition information.  He said that we will be<BR>
able to purchase directly from him on the site.  I have seen the "beta" of<BR>
the new web site and it looks really decent, much better than his current<BR>
SFRPG and GDW pages.  He is not quite ready to launch, but it won't be long,<BR>
now.  He will make a formal announcement on launch day.  The last estimate I<BR>
heard from him was the fifteenth of this month.<BR>
<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
The TRAVELLER Domain<BR>
http://www.downport.com<BR>
Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: will richards <willrichards@hotmail.com><BR>
> Areorders being Accepted for the CT reprints now?<BR>
> If so has any one ordered them and from where?<BR>
> and when do you expect them to come in?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1307<BR>
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